The early church knew nothing of Lone Rangers. People were connected. They did life together. Today, we explored the importance of community. And, I mentioned the value of seeing truth taught and tried, of experiencing the blessing of give and take, and experiencing the joy of authentic relationships. When you choose to get together with people, you move from anonymity to authenticity and accountability. That's where real spiritual life starts to happen! So, here's the question: Why not? Do some avoid community for the same reason(s) that they easily miss church? Or is there another reason. Can anyone share a Scripture or story that might throw light on the benefit of belonging to community?
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One benefit to belonging to community is a sense of satisfaction that you are where God wants you to be. Even if you don't experience any immediate practical benefits, you have an anticipation of blessings to come. It's like exercising. I put it off and put it off, but finally decide to get started. On day one I physically experiece no gain...in fact, I question whether or not I should have started this at all. But I do know that if I stick with it, there will be a "payoff"...some of the payoff will be more immediate, some will be in years to come. I have an emotional and mental sense of accomplishment, knowing that I am doing the right thing, something that will be for my better health in the long run. It may be simple obedience...but that's not a bad thing now is it.
In I Corinthinans 9:24-27 Paul uses this idea of running a race to describe the commitment it takes to win, the discipline it takes today to receive the prize at the end. He writes...24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
I don't know if I have adequately conveyed my thoughts here or done justice to the intent of Paul's message...but that's what a conversation is all about. I talk then you respond, then I respond. So please do.
Razz,
Well said, and a great supporting verse. Those in Christ pursue the "prize" (which I see as God Himself) in the security of our justification; yet in a manner of deliberate discipline - not for the purpose of maintaining our standing with God (justification is not by works), but for the joy of participating in God's redemptive plans.
It all starts and ends with the cross:
Hebrews 12:1-2:
"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God."
A "wow" verse:
1) We run, but not alone, and not only together in our earthly community (which is good!), but also before all the saints who have gone before us.
2) We fight the sin in our lives, not for the purpose of saying "look at me, I don't sin" (1 John ch.1 refutes that notion), but as people who see sin for what it is - that which hinders our joy and service in Christ.
3) It is all about/in/because of Christ - who endured the cross for the sake of JOY! (John 15:11 "These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.")
Community is about sharing life! Family is great but community is family plus extended family. In the past few years our neighborhood community has shared many meals together along with laughs and tears. We have helped each other through a variety of "life issues" including job loss, job changes, promotions, home forclosures, teen-agers dropping out of school, weddings, funerals, baby dedications and births.
As we gather together to "live life" each week we share a meal and we share stories, and all the while we are writing new ones. We have hope for eternity because of Christ, but we have hope for today and tomorrow because of community. Life lived in community, especially christian community, is truely LIFE! I never want to be without it!
Razz - great thoughts! I think it's especially important to note that the blessing of community does not always manifest in immediate, personal gain. Like you said - sometimes it's just the expectation, just the knowledge you're right where you should be!
Chris - awesome breakdown of those verses! And aren't we so thankful we don't run alone? That verse brings to mind a visual picture for me of when my hubby ran a half marathon last fall. Talk about running with endurance! And all along the race route - all 13.2 miles or whatever - people were cheering on the runners. It didn't matter if you knew them or not - you cheered! And any of those runner would tell you how that spurred them on to the finish. So it is with our "great cloud of witnesses" and so we should be to others in our life!
Questions: What exactly is community? Does it have to be church related? What about our little blogger community here - does that serve the same or different purposes that a face-to-face community offers?
What do you do when this whole community thing doesn't work for you?
In the last 7 years, my spouse and I have been part of 5 different community groups. Three of them fell apart around us. In case #1, there weren't enough people to make the group viable. In cases 2 and 3, people began leaving the church, and the groups collapsed. In 4 and 5, I'm afraid it's our fault. My spouse has a mental illness. People don't know how to deal with the manifestations of that illness, and as a result, we end up isolated, mainly because people have been alienated by my spouse's words/actions. This is unintentional, of course. My spouse is on various medications, but nothing seems to help for very long.
I don't see how community is possible any longer with so many bridges burned and so much hurt on all sides, and frankly it's to the point where I don't really care anymore. I'd rather stay home than wreck other people's lives and relationships.
I'm truly glad it works for the majority of you, but for us, David's recent messages have rung hollow and ironic.
Neighbor, I'm profoundly saddened to hear of your struggles. I commend you for your commitment to the Body despite repeated disappointment. I will pray that you will experience the warmth and welcome inclusivity that God desires for us. I will pray that the lies and accusations hurled by the Evil One will be short-circuited, and that his schemes will fail. May God's Spirit and His Word bring you comfort and hope.
God has a community for you. Perhaps too much emphasis on your issues, and not enough on His love. I don't know where you live but you can come to North Star, in North Arlington and we'll love on you and your family!!
Our friend up above asked a great question, "What do you do when this whole community thing doesn't work for you?" What is "this whole community thing?" Have we narrowed down successful community involvement to having a good Home Group night and getting along with each other? Is community not working when someone has difficulties that do not seem to be "taken care of" by the community? How does a community embrace one another, even the ones who don't "fit in" for whatever reason?
Our friend is connected to his wife and he is showing great devotion, patience, gentleness, faithfulness, sacrifice, care, love, etc to her with all of her struggles. He owns her struggles. Her struggles are his struggles. It's a beautiful but also difficult picture of what it means to be "one." Would someone say that this whole marriage thing is not working for him? I don't think he would say that. I don't think we would say that either. But there's something between him and his wife that goes beyond comfort, compatability, affection, peace, harmony, pain-free living. What is that thing? And could that same thing be true for biblical community?
Am I asking the right questions? Can anyone else track with me and add to my thoughts?
I think Razz is really hitting on something important. This is penetrating and profound:
"But there's something between him and his wife that goes beyond comfort, compatibility, affection, peace, harmony, pain-free living."
That kind of empathy is what I think the scriptures call agape love. The giving up of yourself for another person. This is the love Christ has for us. I think there is the potential for our communities to become bonded in the give-and-take care for one another. Not a bad thing at all, yet there are times when we may be called to give up even the comfort and support of our own community (perhaps for a period of time) to seek out and serve those who are hurting outside the close fold. I don't know exactly how that looks, but perhaps this is what Razz is thinking about.
I hesitate to say this, but feel it may be helpful to our discussion: even very good things, like "community" or even "finding our sweet spot" can potentially become idols that distract us from Christ, if our focus is too much on those good gifts, and not on the Giver of those good gifts. With that in mind, I have to respectfully disagree with part of this statement by free2worship:
"We have hope for eternity because of Christ, but we have hope for today and tomorrow because of community."
To the first part I give a hearty "yes!", but, our hope for today and tomorrow and every day on this earth is all in and because of Christ. If a Christian has a season without community, or a season of frustration with not finding their best place of service, they still have unshakable hope in Him. If we are in great community, and have deep satisfaction in our areas of service, our hope is not ultimately in those gifts; it is still in Him.
I don�t feel very settled most days; I don�t feel very effective in my service for Christ. As my years in the faith roll along, I am more aware of the subtleness of my sin, of the fickleness of my affections, and of the doubts that plague me (like in the writing this post!). I was not saved by my good efforts, and in the end, my good efforts won�t keep me in His grace (that�s why it is called grace!). BUT (Eph 2:4), I know Christ will hold me.
I think our anonymous friend above and razzdaddy4 are onto something profound that most of us (myself included) don't often admit to. In out sinful state, sometimes community fails. Members can get hurt or become alienated.
I want to start by applauding our anonymous friend above, because his family has stayed with the church and I can tell that he still longs for the connection found in community. From my experience, I would encourage you: Don't give up! God has a plan for you, and it involves connection to fellow believers.
I too have seen people get hurt and leave the church because of the way that conflict was (or was not) dealt with in community. My own family has been in those same situations and I don't know that we always made the best decisions. What I know is, we are all sinful and part of belonging to community means that eventually you will have to deal with conflict. For my part, being a younger family, I think that often maturity plays a big part of unresolved conflict. It simply seems too hard, or not worth the effort, to take the steps outlined in Matthew 18 to deal with conflict. I can tell you that the short period of discomfort is well worth the relationship that can thrive from such sacrifice.
I wish that PBC would attack this head on with a series or workshop on conflict resolution. When I consider the relationships that might have been salvaged, it makes me sad and determined to not suffer that loss again.
Here's a piece of what I meant when I said "this whole community thing doesn't work for you"
* In a supposedly safe homegroup environment, one shares candidly about contemplating suicide. This is met with silence and blank stares. Not one of the group members called in the next week to check how things were.
* Words are spoken which inadvertently offend. Apologies are offered and forgiveness requested. But this is rebuffed.
* Resentment and hurt feelings build, but no one dares to follow Matt. 18 and confront the offending party. It all blows up one night, and we are forced to leave the group.
How do you have belonging in these kinds of environment? Where is acceptance? What kind of "community" is this, anyway?
I think sometimes God looks down at us and our foolish actions and just shakes his head at our stupidity. It's sad, anonymous, that you had to go through that. Like Gandhi said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians." We're stupid and wrong sometimes so forgive us; there is a place for you, dont give up.
WOW. Am I glad I read this today.
I am saddened and encourageed atr the same time. How can that be?
I've been there, rejected and never knew why. I have been the rejector but much later realized it was not them ,it was me that needed to adjust,be more Christ like in my thoughts, words and actions but I too hung in there and now looking back see how God is forming me so let's all hang together and this world will be a better place,changed by God.
Sorry this is so long...
Anonymous asked..."How do you have belonging in these kinds of environment? Where is acceptance? What kind of "community" is this, anyway?"
What you experienced was sad and disappointing to say the least. What can you do now? Where do you go from here? Some have encouraged you to not give up...that there is a place for you. Have you given up? Do you believe that Biblical community can be different than what you experienced? There are obvious things that your Home group could have done differently. But what can you do now for the group that you "were" in to help them understand how they could have responded differently? What could you do for the next group you engage in to help them understand where you and your wife are and would like to be? How can you help your Area Pastor to grow and to help his leaders to better care for all who come to communty?
You may feel too hurt to even consider these suggestions, but if you can see them as in need of your help, that may make a difference. They need to know how their actions and lack of action affected you. By God's grace you can speak the truth in love, not in retaliation. And when I say "they" I think you really have to separate each of the members of that group and not lump them into one. Biblical community is certainly a collection of people...but each person is at a different point of maturity.
I am sorry for the hurt that you and your wife have been through.
It is so unfortunate what took place. But what can come of this? Can God take your "tragedy" and use it for your ultimate good, for the good of His church and for His glory? I have no doubt at all that Satan wants you to be isolated, angry, bitter, resentful and disillusioned by your experience. He wants you to feel like there is no chance you will ever "belong"...that God cannot be trusted...that you are just uniqueIs he right? Does the passage in Ephesians 611-12 apply here..."For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." So...what is your defense?
I greatly appreciate what Will W said up above, "When I consider the relationships that might have been salvaged, it makes me sad and determined to not suffer that loss again."
I hope you will be more determined because of your disappointment, to make sure that it doesn't happen again...to you or to anyone else. You have a choice though...to never risk being hurt again or to take a risk and maybe experience something that God intended, something good that you helped to form. How can God use you and your experience to make community better...community that works?
For the record, we are still in group #5, mentioned above. In rereading my post, I realize I made it seem like we had left that group, too. In my second post, I cited three examples. The second one is from our current group. The first and third are from the last group.
We remain cordial to members of our previous group when we see them at church.
I'm not sure how to help anybody understand where we are and what we need. I certainly don't want to do the old "Class, meet Jimmy. He's new, and I want you to make him feel welcome. Please don't stare at his wooden leg."
"So...what is your defense?"
Huh? Against what you quoted? I have no defense. I'm not going to argue with you. Why do I need to offer you one?
Not "your defense"...like defend your position. I'm talking about the "defense" that God has given us against the attack of the enemy of our faith (see Ephesians 6)11-16). Sorry for the miscommunication. Didn't mean to put you on the defensive...(that was a joke.
I really appreciate this dialogue. Not only are we putting things on the table, but I'm sure that others are resonating with some of the same thoughts. Thanks for everyone's vulnerability! Here's what I wonder: do we express ourselves to those in our community with the same frankness as we do online? I'm not talking about throwing diplomacy and gentleness out the window. But, I'll bet many communities would be able to work through hurt if their members were as open to dialogue as has been shown here.
Having gone to PBC for about 29+ years...we have been blessed. CG or HG is happening all around in many other churches but w/different names...in fact...before we called them HG's we called them Growth Groups at PBC. "Nothing is new under the sun" (from the Bible). And yes, CG's and HG's (Growth Groups) are hard and imperfect only because sinners attend (Ro. 3:23)and we all are sinners and need a Savior. My husband, children (now adults)and grandchildren are all in a HG/Growth Group...and it is hard at times. What makes any of what we,mere man, do...good or successful is CHRIST. "Seek Him firs..." Matt. 6:33 is key...and to be Eph. 5:1 ("Be imatators of Christ") followers is essential too! It is hard to "imitate Christ" like Eph. 5:1 says to...if you don't have a knowledge of what HE thinks, acts like, or how HE moves. Soooo...my thinking is that the more we seek HIM first...the more we see a higher view of HIM...the more we can give OUT what we have been filled UP with (HIS WORD)! HIS opinion's matter! Only GOD can change a heart or renovate it! IF the verse in 2 Tim. 3:16-17 is true...and it most certainly is!...then we need to be spurred on... encouraged (1 Thes. 5:11) to know HIM more...to depend on The Most High (Daniel 4:1-37)above any CG,HG/Growth Group/others first! We cannot give out the kind of love...unconditional love... if we are not equipped or filled up with GOD's WORD and the power of prayer.....God breathed Words matter and change things! The more we know HIM...the more we know how HIS heart beats! The more we pray to The Most High...and for those we love and dislike...the more we see a higher view of GOD! HE changes us. We make our heart HIS dwelling place and it's full of HIM and not me, Janice (thank goodness!)...or us. No matter if you are in a hospital bed alone...or in a foxhole in Iraq...you know for CERTAIN...the Most High is with you... because you know and trust what HE says in Heb. 13:5 "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." Our FATHER doesn't lie! So yes, CG is good...HG is nice...but all in all...the most valued thing you own (if you own one) is your BIBLE...it will give you HIS...Your Shepherd's opinon's about life...about being content/joy-filled because HE promises "He will perfect all that concerns you." Ps. 138:8 and "The Lord is my helper..." Heb. 13:6 and that's NO LIE! Depend on HIM above mere man, above others approval.....GOD will change hearts...only WHEN hearts seek to know HIM and seach HIM out like a precious gem...will we be filled up enought to give out that love! We don't do that near enough...but I trust our FATHER will get us there because HE loves us so much that HE got "uncomfortable" enough to step up on the cross, was beaten, spit on, "inconvenienced" and saw all our sweet faces...the face of sinners who need to have the Lion of Judah and the love of the Lamb of GOD... and HE is the one I am going to point to above anything else! That's what we as followers of Christ are called to do...point to HIM who saved a "wretch like me". Amen...I am blessed no matter whether I am in the wilderness all by myself for 40 days or a foxhole in Iraq/life. I have The Most High with me...HIS LOVE LETTERS...the BIBLE...God breathed Words!! That's healing love and power!!
In HIS care and on HIS mind,
janice
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